----BEGIN CLASS---- [13:30] #startclass [13:30] Roll Call [13:30] Prashant Sharma [13:30] Pravar Agrawal [13:30] Sourabh Deshmukh [13:30] Deb [13:30] Sourav Moitra [13:30] swiftkiller [13:30] Kumar Vipin Yadav [13:30] Bryan [13:30] ritwiz sinha [13:30] Ritik Raushan [13:30] Anil Khatri [13:30] kaustubh gupta [13:30] Ayush Jayaswal [13:30] matorix_ [13:30] Ankesh Bharti [13:30] Saurav [13:30] Sayan Bhowmik [13:30] Sk Sahidullah [13:30] Ankur [13:30] Nilesh Patra [13:30] Sheetal Singala [13:30] Abhishek Kumar [13:31] Rahul Jha [13:31] Priyanka Hiranandani [13:31] Pavitra [13:31] niraj [13:31] Farhaan Bukhsh [13:31] kanay bhandari [13:31] Manu Shaurya [13:31] Pallav Bhalla [13:31] Akhil Ravoori [13:31] C Dharmateja [13:31] timonsmith: [13:31] bhavin, yes I already added it, Thanks [13:31] Bhavesh Gupta [13:32] Robin Schubert [13:32] Bhavin Gandhi [13:32] Prashant Jamkhande [13:32] Pallav Bhalla [13:32] Razy Kased [13:32] Honey bhardwaj [13:32] Devesh Verma [13:32] <_ABD_> Abdul Raheem [13:32] Rohan Maity [13:32] Ankit Kumar [13:32] Aman Verma [13:32] Okay. [13:32] Marcus Mohan [13:32] We can start now. [13:33] We gave the links related to mailing list guidelines and also from the summer training docs. [13:33] Now, most of you already wrote at least one email to the list. [13:33] django_master [13:34] Can you please write one about if there was any mistake in your reply? If you think you did not do any mistake, then no need to reply. [13:34] banana [13:34] Rayan Das [13:34] kushal, I tried many times, but couldn't get myself registered to the mailing list. [13:34] Philemon Johnson [13:35] Mayank Gupta [13:35] Top-level reply versus bottom-level reply [13:35] snbk97, pm me your email address. [13:35] rkased, means you top-posted, correct? [13:35] I replied with top Post Reply [13:35] I got an email saying something about "bounce" and got unsubscribed. I then subscribed again but it says I already am! [13:35] Not reply in HTML emails [13:36] Kuntal Majumder [13:36] timonsmith, Yes, sorry for that incident, I already wrote a blog post about the incident. [13:36] https://kushaldas.in/posts/dmarc-mailing-list-yahoo-and-gmail.html [13:37] Will read after class. Thanks. [13:37] And rest all of you think you did not do any mistake? [13:37] No I didn't top-post correctly [13:37] seriously? [13:37] I replied with Top Post reply [13:37] and also I replied in HTML [13:37] I didn't remove redundant lines while replying. [13:37] I replied with Top post [13:37] Hello folks [13:37] I have written the mail in HTML [13:37] I mean I did top-post correctly, but should have bottom-post [13:37] I made top post reply [13:37] Making mistakes are okay, but, if you can not acknowledge and learn from the mistake, that would be a problem from you. [13:37] also replied in HTML [13:37] I replied with Top Post reply. [13:38] s/from/for [13:38] Do we have to use email clients like thunderbird to top-post? I couldn't achieve it correctly using gmail web client. [13:38] Anyone else? [13:38] I haven't yet, didn't know what to write [13:39] I also haven't done it yet [13:39] zarnigma, First of all, you are *not* supposed to top-post. [13:39] I haven't replied too [13:39] Wrote a tip-post reply [13:39] *top [13:39] zarnigma, second, please read all the links given, using a desktop client makes thing eaiser, but, you can bottom post using web client only. [13:40] anyone else? [13:40] Roll Call : Kaustubh Gupta [13:40] I have also not replied yet [13:40] so many people wrote in the roll call, only a few have the courage to acknowledge their mistakes. [13:40] I have not replied yet [13:40] Who can tell me about the homework? [13:41] I have read the articles [13:41] I have not done yet,didn't get what to write [13:41] Hacking history. [13:41] <_honey_> we have to read those 2 link that were given [13:41] Hacking culture is noble in my opinion [13:42] about hackers [13:42] selfless as well [13:42] haven't had time yet tonight [13:42] I have read the 2 links provided by you [13:42] <_honey_> those containing hacking etics and history [13:42] I haven't read a IRC log that you suggested in last and Couldn't read books [13:42] I have joined just today. I haven't looked at previous chats yet. I'll make sure I come prepared tommorow [13:42] Hacker Ethic and Free software movement [13:42] <_honey_> and one guest lecture log [13:42] read the hacking ethics and history [13:42] don't solve a problem twice, build off what is already established [13:42] difference between free and open source and propietary software [13:43] Long back, I replied with a top post. Will correct that surely and will keep in mind from the next time. [13:43] Almost none of you could say the name of the article :( [13:43] I read the links... It was an awakening experience to know the contributions of Richard Stallman [13:43] read about keyboard layout and practicing on Klavaro [13:43] Hacking history,Repetitive strain injury,GNU Operating System [13:43] I read about hack history. and able to read some part of log [13:43] How to become a hacker [13:43] How To Become A Hacker [13:43] I have not read the book yet or gone through the books yet. [13:43] I set up a blog for myself using jamstack and would post today night speaking in context with homework. [13:43] xw19, we don't expect you to read the books in one night. [13:44] 20 years of revisions, that's great that the author, Eric Steven Raymond, has kept up so consistently. [13:44] I have gone through the book's pdf completly as well though I am yet to watch the documentary. [13:44] How to become a hacker is one document, what else I asked? [13:44] i read about hacking history and difference between the different types of software [13:44] touch-typing [13:45] Aaron Schwartz documentary iirc. [13:45] read "Hacker ethic and free software movement" [13:45] I also read about peter norvig's blog on how to learn programming in 10 years [13:45] ayushjay, did I ask you to read about touch-typing? [13:45] <_ABD_> How to ask questions the smarter way ? [13:45] I havn't seen documentry yet but i will do it tonight [13:45] gandalfdwite, zarnigma Okay, [13:45] Practice touch typing for 30 minutes. Also m.buf uses dvorak layout which I checked out. [13:45] kushal: you also asked to read the free as in freedom by richard stallaman I think. [13:45] kushal nope but a few links were given on the topic, sorry [13:46] gargantua_kerr[m, I did not. [13:46] Catb's document about How to ask smart questions and Hacker Culture [13:46] hacker ethic and free sofware movement [13:46] Also Aaron's documentary in youtube [13:46] I asked two documents, Hacker Ethic and Free Software Movement and how to learn programming in 10 years [13:47] also read Hacker Ethic and Free Software Movement [13:47] who all read both of those documents? [13:47] I read both [13:47] I read them as well [13:47] me [13:47] anyone else? [13:48] me [13:48] I have one doc left; but will do by tonight latest, have been busy. [13:48] i read only hacker ethic [13:48] i read about the hacker ethic [13:48] I read both. [13:48] <_honey_> i have only read one [13:48] i have too read one [13:48] I also read hacker ethic and another article that mbuf suggested [13:48] I could only read Hacker Ethic and Free Software Movement [13:49] I read both [13:49] I have read both hacker ethics and free software movement. [13:49] no :( [13:49] Okay, brb [13:50] kushal: read only one . Will surely read the another one tonight. [13:50] I have not read "Teach yourself Programming in 10 years" [13:50] ! [13:52] next [13:52] I am wondering why no one is asking questions. [13:52] i missed the roll call at the starting of the session [13:52] As i joined late [13:53] mdl2000, which is okay. [13:53] ! [13:53] So no one has any question from those two documents? [13:53] next [13:53] Thanks eom [13:53] what should I post to the list? [13:53] How do we better educate the mainstream about the meaning of a hacker? [13:53] Whoroo, nothing right now, wait for the next email which you want to reply :) [13:54] rkased, please follow the rules. [13:54] That's what I think [13:54] ok :) [13:54] ! [13:54] next [13:54] ! [13:54] How can we better educate the mainstream about the meaning of a hacker? [13:54] ! [13:55] As an individual, what can I do? [13:55] rkased, mbuf answered that yesterday, you will have to first increase your reading. [13:55] Ok, will do. [13:55] I'll check out yesterday's log now. [13:55] rkased, To learn and see what happened before, what is happening now. [13:55] jasonbraganza, do you want to say something on this? [13:56] ok, that is helpful kushal [13:56] rkased as an individual become what Taleb describes as the intolerant minority (in the benevolent sense, like RMS is) change yourself and refuse to use or do what is not right. and slowly the world will come around to your point of view [13:57] gnu started as a small collection of programs. it powers the world now [13:57] understood jasonbraganza [13:57] ! [13:57] ! [13:58] next [13:58] Why linux is more famous compared to GNU? [13:58] nosetrex read about it :) or ask me after class. too long for now [13:58] next [13:59] How do we improve creativity as a programmer if as a step of learning how to program, is by looking at other programmers' code(and is stated as a good method)? [13:59] ! [13:59] Just like writing, read a lot code, also write as much possible. [13:59] next [13:59] ! [13:59] I saw some emails come in, but they seemed to contain little as yet - will have to check config too [13:59] Aravoori_ you learn the basics by looking at other peoples code. once you are fluent, you mix in your own ideas. and that is where the creativity lies [14:00] Whoroo, yup. [14:00] does that help Aravoori_ ? [14:00] next [14:00] As you said we need to encourage people for using opensurce softwares but search engine like duckduckgo give less irrelevant surch results? [14:00] Thanks jasonbraganza and kushal [14:01] deadcypher, a search engine is as good as your search terms. [14:01] ! [14:01] also I don't know the connection between open source and duckduckgo. [14:01] deadcypher it does not for most stuff. just use it for most of your searches. and google the little that isn’t. [14:01] ! [14:01] jasonbraganza:yes it does. [14:01] I want to know how to search for desired results other than using dorks [14:01] deadcypher also what kushal said :) ddg is not open source. just more privacy focussed [14:02] ! [14:02] next [14:02] any idea on how to increase reading speed as i am a slow reader [14:02] jasonbraganza, ^^ your plate :) [14:02] I have been uusing duck duck for about a year now, It's good enough to solve my query in the first few links [14:02] kaustubh short answer. don’t. will share a link in a minute [14:02] ! [14:02] kaustubh_ ^ [14:03] next [14:03] was it a ethical hacking what Stallman did of decrypt the password that other users have applied on their work? [14:03] ! [14:03] kaustubh_ https://medium.com/the-mission/speed-reading-is-bullshit-f5acbee7f59e [14:04] swiftkiller, the word ethical hacking is a marketing term. [14:04] swiftkiller more along the lines of what you do at college. a little self righteous perhaps. it’s in the book to show the arc of his growth and what influenced him [14:04] We will discussing more about those later, learn what is hacking first. [14:04] next [14:04] What is the best way of reading code? Like we have to clone someone's git repository or any other way you can suggest? [14:04] > [14:05] kushal ^ :) [14:06] s_, yes. We will also discuss about a few tools which can help you to read code easily (during sessions on editors). [14:06] next [14:06] Thank you Kushal [14:06] How seriously should we take yesterday's "Multiple TCP-based remote denial of service issues" ? [14:06] xw19, Where did you see that? [14:07] oss security [14:07] mailing list [14:07] xw19 focus on your own growth and what you need to learn first. stuff like that will get patched. all you need to do is keep updating your system. [14:07] I have no clue, you will have to ask the experts. [14:07] next [14:07] How do you setup an open source project?? [14:07] <_ABD_> ! [14:07] ! [14:07] katek, that will be an advance question, we will reach there eventually in this training. [14:07] next [14:08] What is GNU?? [14:08] katek too broad a question :) [14:08] darshna, Open google.com or duckduckgo.com [14:08] Just type the same question [14:08] Press enter [14:08] And then see the magic. [14:08] Kushal ok [14:09] darshna GNU powers linux. a search will reveal all :) [14:09] next [14:09] Why the lawyer suddenly wanted to know about the Hackers and what the Hacking is? [14:09] ! [14:09] SSahid, I am not sure about this question, we can discuss after the session. [14:09] ok [14:09] darshna, Your question cleanly showed you never read anything we provided you. [14:10] next [14:10] <_ABD_> kushal, in your blog it was written that IBM computers were restrictive, can you please explain that ? [14:11] _ABD_ restrictive in the sense of IBM controlled what you could do or not do on the machines that they ‘rented’ to you. [14:11] hence the unix - gnu - linux revolution [14:11] _ABD_, I will also give you a link to a book later in the training, which will explain you more. [14:11] next [14:11] ! [14:11] ! [14:12] <_ABD_> ok thanks jasonbraganza, kushal :) [14:12] next [14:12] I just wanted to ask whether do you start building the project and wait for others to join to contribute or you find an interest group of maybe 4 or 5 and then start a project?? [14:13] ! [14:13] katek, depends, again, please wait for project related questions, or ask after the sessions to others. [14:13] next [14:13] katek most projects start from you wanting to improve something else actually. and some come from solving something you want to exist [14:13] I yield my question, it has already been asked. Sorry [14:14] next [14:14] I could not relate the Free Software to the Political Movements? [14:14] SSahid, did you read the whole document? [14:14] SSahid, this one https://kushaldas.in/pages/hacker-ethic-and-free-software-movement.html ? [14:14] kushal: yesterday my exams got over,will read tonight [14:15] next [14:15] As you said in FOSS people also make money, I want to know how? through donations only? [14:15] no, i did not read only last 3 o 4 paragraphs [14:15] batul: I missed turn . Slow internet connection [14:15] SSahid, read it full, the book links are given at the end. [14:15] kushal, can I answer deadcypher's question ? [14:15] ! [14:15] ! [14:15] deadcypher, the biggest way companies make money is by selling support. [14:16] Armageddon, yes [14:16] ok [14:16] deadcypher consulting is one way. selling solutions around it is another. support is a third [14:16] I got it thanks [14:16] ! [14:16] FOSS community also provide documentation [14:17] so companies like rancher for example, makes open source kubernetes distributions, anyone can use, but big companies want to keep it safe, so rancher offers support for money in return they help fix issues or troubleshoot problems [14:17] kaendagger[m] ask your question [14:17] deadcypher, ^ [14:17] next [14:17] how to stop IRC chat from getting disconnected. It shows connection reset by peer [14:17] use a desktop client. solves most issues [14:18] next [14:18] norvig asks us to be a polyglot to be a good programmer.He mentions about languages that support class abstraction, functional abstraction, syntatic abstraction ,declarative specifications and the one that emphasizes parellelism.. I could surfacely understand what all those mean..isn't it possible to have one or two programming languages that supports all the things mentioned above? [14:18] I am using a desktop client - Hexchat [14:18] mdl2000, if you have a server you can use IRC bouncer, or pay to get irccloud.com [14:18] ! [14:18] ! [14:18] But still it gets disconnected [14:18] zarnigma it comes with time. you do not have to learn it all now. even norvigs title says learn in 10 years :) [14:18] zarnigma, no worries, I also don't know the meaning of most of those words. [14:18] next [14:19] zarnigma, and I already spent more than 10 years working. [14:19] :) [14:19] ! [14:19] :) [14:19] Should I read Structure and interpretation of Programming ?? [14:19] next [14:19] katek, If you want to, it is a great book. [14:20] Cars and bikes have computers. Should we also care about them ? [14:20] Yes. [14:20] I will give you some links later. [14:20] on that topic :) [14:20] next [14:20] Just wanted to say the FOSS ethos is very refreshing, and in line with my values of late, once my eyes were opened to the idea I converted as fully as possible atm, ok, so not a question :) [14:20] kushal, thanks [14:20] ! [14:21] next [14:21] Is there any specific advantage editors have over IDEs? I have gone through some blogs and most of them look like people's own perception in a constructive way. So it's better to know more than one or stick to one with the basic knowledge of working on others also. Is there any specific you suggest? [14:21] jasonbraganza, ^^ do you want to answer? [14:21] ! [14:21] s_ do both and then make up your own mind :) [14:21] kushal, can I answer that one [14:22] Armageddon, go ahead [14:22] jasonbraganza,Can you let me know where to start? [14:22] s_ after the session? [14:22] s_, editors are barebone, you have to configure them to do everything you need, by default they are less resource intensive but who knows after you add all the bells and whistles, IDEs come with all the bells and whistles but less configurable around different languages. Depends on what you like to do, build your own or buy ready :) [14:23] Sure [14:23] next [14:23] I once saw in a recent video of Edureka, that for python the best IDE is Pycharm. Do you also think the same? [14:23] s_, it is also part of the sessions :) [14:23] Thank you Armageddon [14:23] for your kind reply [14:24] mdl2000, which one is better BMW or Mercedes? [14:24] It's relative I think [14:24] exactly [14:24] there you go [14:24] I think I answered it in my reply to s_, mdl2000 [14:24] that is same when it comes to IDE or editors or Operating systems, or clothes. [14:24] Thanks :) [14:25] Armageddon, but I was asking that is PyCharm the best IDE for python [14:25] mdl2000 later please [14:25] next [14:27] I will write an email after tomorrow's session, try to reply properly on the list. [14:27] ! [14:27] next [14:27] <_ABD_> kushal, ok :) [14:28] how did you get in open source projects? [14:28] internaut_, long story, we will talk about it later :) [14:28] internaut_ kushal has a blog. going back to 2005 [14:28] ! [14:28] read it [14:28] next [14:28] Duckduckgo is a search engine that respects user privacy as it claims. Is there any mail service provider who also does the same?Like ProtonMail is there but is it reliable? Or if you can suggest any. [14:28] ! [14:29] s_, ProtonMail is good, but, you have to assume that people can read your emails unless they are always encrypted. [14:29] next [14:29] I have many plugins installed on my gmail, so can I use them on ddg? [14:29] no? [14:29] mdl2000, No clue, sorry. Search on Internet. [14:29] Okay Kushal. Understood. Thank you. [14:29] ! [14:30] Thanks :) [14:30] ok folks. if you have checked the calendar, we have a session on writing and blogging tomorrow [14:31] to that end i would like for you folk to read https://summertraining.readthedocs.io/en/latest/blogging.html [14:31] and come prepared with all the questions you have about writing [14:31] ! [14:31] jasonbraganza: ok [14:31] Are my messages visible? [14:31] jasonbraganza: Sure! [14:31] nihilist-banana: yes [14:32] jasonbraganza: Sure! [14:32] ! [14:32] it’s short - that link ^ - should take you 30 mins tops [14:32] sure [14:32] nihilist-banana: yes [14:33] next [14:34] next [14:34] Norwig said that the best kind of learning is by doing but the problem with me is I have no idea what I'm interested with. [14:34]