----BEGIN CLASS---- [13:29] #startclass [13:30] Roll call [13:30] Mayank Singhal [13:30] Rajat Gupta [13:30] Shiva Saxena [13:30] Saikat Dey [13:30] Rayan Das [13:30] kushal das [13:30] Deep [13:30] Ved Sinha [13:30] sahil [13:30] Pranjal Aswani [13:30] vishal Kushwaha [13:30] Robin Schubert [13:30] Bhavin Gandhi [13:30] Priyanka Saggu [13:30] Avik Mukherjee [13:30] olajayi__ [13:30] soniya vyas [13:30] Aditya Deshpande [13:30] harish pillay [13:30] Ashish Kumar Mishra [13:30] Sehenaz Parvin [13:30] zishan ahmad [13:30] Vivek Shukla [13:30] Karan Pratap [13:30] sweksha jha [13:30] Naman Sharma [13:30] Jitendra Kumar Tripathi [13:30] Aditya Patil [13:30] Muhammad Zeeshan Qazi [13:30] kumar vipin yadav [13:30] Shruti Dash [13:30] Prabhu Sharan Singh [13:30] sk56 [13:30] Ananyo Maiti [13:30] Prashant Sharma [13:30] Sourabh Kulkarni [13:30] sonia singla [13:30] Rajan Choudhary [13:30] Santhosh Nagaraj [13:30] sourabh deshmukh [13:30] Jaydeep Borkar [13:30] sunny khandare [13:30] Priyam das [13:30] Priyanka Sharma [13:30] Jason Braganza [13:30] Gajendra Saraswat [13:30] Ashwani Kumar Gupta [13:31] Welcome everyone. [13:31] Shubham sharma [13:31] Hello all ! [13:31] Greetings all. [13:31] harish, is our first guest speaker for 2018 summer training. [13:31] shamik nandi [13:31] Hello all! [13:31] nitya sharma [13:31] harish, we have a bot called batul. [13:31] Adarsh Pathak [13:31] kushal, ok [13:31] If people have questions for you, they will type ! and wait for you to take questions. [13:31] ! [13:31] Manjeet Mehta [13:31] harish, you just have to type next [13:31] harish, try once [13:32] next [13:32] harish, batul will maintain the queue. [13:32] nice [13:32] harish, stage is yours. [13:32] Alison Scott [13:32] next [13:32] Sourabh Pruthi [13:32] ! [13:32] ! [13:32] bhavin192, you've a question? [13:32] prabhusharan, Ved_Sinha wait for the speaker to start [13:32] next [13:33] [13:33] [13:33] [13:33] harish, I think bhavin192 helped to demo [13:33] roll call: Saksham srivastava ` [13:33] ok [13:33] harish, Can you introduce yourself? [13:33] next [13:33] Roll call Rohan Vivek [13:33] prabhusharan, ok will introduce myself. [13:33] harish, please go ahead [13:33] [13:33] How long is the course? [13:33] Ved_Sinha, later. [13:33] sorry [13:34] harish, please go ahead. [13:34] i am harish pillay. i am an engineer - electical and computer engineering. i live in singapore. [13:34] i have been on the Internet when it was just known as ARPAnet. [13:34] back in the mid-1980s. [13:34] i am currently working at Red Hat here in Singapore. [13:35] i've been with RH for just about 15 years now. I've had 4 startups before joining Red Hat in 2003. [13:35] next [13:35] ! [13:35] next [13:36] ! [13:36] ! [13:36] Sir, could you please share about your startup ideas and stories related to the same [13:36] how can I attend today's class? [13:36] Roll call: tabrez [13:36] Rahul, you are attending right now. [13:36] jaydeep_borkar, no "sir" please. [13:36] okay :D [13:37] a startup is really something about solving a problem that You think is important to yourself or people around you. [13:37] doing a startup is about wanting to solve a problem - "scratch an itch" - that you really want to solve. [13:38] so the 1st one i did was to run an internet-related business called Sembawang Media here in singapore in 1995. [13:38] Roll call:Shubham Sharma [13:38] it was to bring the Internet to people - consumers initially via dialup modems. [13:39] Roll call : Piyush Aggarwal [13:39] leased lines for businesses. [13:39] ! [13:39] ! [13:39] we had a subsidiary called Pacific Internet which was to run the ISP business and Sembwang Media to help with getting businesses on to the new fangled thing called the Internet. [13:39] next [13:40] harish, what do you do at RH? Can you tell us about some problems that you solve there? [13:40] aswanipranjal, ok. [13:41] ! [13:41] aswanipranjal, i am heading a group the deals with working with the open source community around asia pacific, engaging with CIO/CEO/CTOs of corporations around getting them to understand what open source is and the benefits they can derive from it. [13:41] ! [13:41] and also to engage with governments around the region on procurement and standards. [13:41] next [13:42] how important it is to learn how the web technology interacts with the O.S rather than learning the syntax of web technology ?? [13:42] ! [13:42] sk56, why do you make those distinctions? [13:42] what is open source? [13:42] actually i am learning unix networking programming [13:43] so i had doubt about this [13:43] sk56, you need to understand stuff. if understanding it means appreciating the syntax (as you mention) and related stuff, so be it. [13:43] sorry I didnt get it [13:43] sk56, unix networking is really about sockets (mostly) which then ties into the Internet. [13:44] Please do not ask any questions, wait for the speaker to finish whatever he wants to say first. [13:44] syntax is an implemtation issue. once you understand *what* it is that you want to do, you can then go figure out the HOW (which is really syntax mostly). [13:44] ok so then by learning that will i be able to understand the how technologies interact with O.S [13:44] in other words, get the foundation right. [13:44] Rollcall: Tushar Nitave [13:45] ok got it [13:45] Rollcall: Dinesh [13:45] sk56, perhaps. but again, you find the areas that interest you initially, learn all that you can about it and then find out what else it needs to work with. [13:45] perhaps file systems, perhaps the operating system, perhaps security ... [13:45] Rollcall : Shashank [13:46] next [13:46] you have started all the startups? How did you came to open Source? [13:46] ! [13:46] Aironly, I have been in the free software world since 1986. "open source" as a word combo came around in 1998. [13:46] ! [13:47] Okay. Thank you Harish. [13:47] i had the fortune of receiving a tape with code for EMACS from Richard Stallman back in 1986 or 87. [13:48] ! [13:48] ! [13:48] Read all about how "open source" came about by the person who coined it, Christine Peterson in 1998: https://opensource.com/article/18/2/coining-term-open-source-software [13:48] next [13:48] We're honoured to have you here harish sir. [13:48] harish, Since you have been quite long in Redhat I have a question for you. Redhat is a company that primarily invests in open source. How does a company makes money by making open source software? [13:48] d3vil0p3r, no "sir" please. [13:49] sure... :) [13:49] Can we discuss question answers afterwords please. [13:49] ananyo, open source is a software development model. it is NOT the business model. Red Hat (note that it is two words) business model is to sell subscriptions for the software and services we provide. [13:49] RHEL is indeed a commercial one, commercial support I guess... [13:50] How did you get involved in free software and technology? Was it the revolurion or your urge [13:50] Sorry [13:50] Ok got it [13:50] d3vil0p3r, yes, RHEL is available - the binaries from Red Hat under a subscription. You will get all the source code as well and you can then do as you please with it. we are accountable to the customer on the binaries we make available as part of the subscription. [13:50] yes thnks [13:51] next [13:51] ! [13:51] harish, I realized since the military services, you have always indulged in the empowering of students towards open source, can you please enlighten us with your philosophy behind such course of professional life ? [13:51] brute4s99, you are not in the queue. please requeue [13:52] ! [13:52] I am, it's my turn [13:52] ok then. [13:52] don't understand "since the military services" part. please clarify. [13:53] you have been in the military services in Singapore, right ? I saw it in your linkedin profile [13:53] around 1980s [13:53] brute4s99, that is my national service obligations. singaporeans do 2 year NS at age 18. [13:53] yes, i agree with that. [13:54] harish, you have always indulged in the empowering of students towards open source, can you please enlighten us with your philosophy behind such course of professional life ? [13:54] and then as a reservist until the age of 40 or 50 depending on your rank. i was an inspector of police in the singapore police force during my full time national service days and then as a reservist captain in the singapore civl defence force. [13:56] jerome boatang [13:56] fyi, singapore's defence posture is with a civilian reservist core. our regular forces are tiny in terms of numbers. our reservists make up more than 90% I think. [13:56] Sorry [13:56] Typo [13:56] brute4s99, emoowering students just one part. it is about empowering everyone [13:57] that open source is a fundamentally important thing for innovation to happen and more importantly for people to be able to take control of their techological lives instead of being beholden to others. [13:58] oh that's really inspiring, harish ! Thank you for sharing that with all of us ! [13:58] i taught as an adjunt prof at nanyang technological university from 2006-2014 around open technologies. my course contents are all online at ce9005.pbworks.com under a CC license. [13:59] ! [13:59] next [13:59] Why so less number of Open Source Projects started out in India (among big onces), although India has a software industry with huge number of developers? [13:59] ankk98, had *you* started one? [14:00] or are you part of one? [14:00] or more? [14:00] Trying to do one :) [14:00] ! [14:00] contributing in some already and learning [14:00] the majority of devs in india are doing custom work that is just a "job". sadly. [14:01] don't get me wrong. that is a noble thing. [14:01] some of them are not as passionate as others are in doing open source work. they might also have rules placed on them that do not allow them to participate. [14:01] i too feels the same, 9 out of 10 cs students around me dont take interest :( [14:01] let me give you an example of how Red Hat does with open source projects. [14:02] from: https://investors.redhat.com/corporate-governance/governance-documents [14:03] if you scroll down and look at the Code of Business Conduct and Ethics document [14:03] which is a PDF and go to page 2 2nd last paragraph: [14:03] "Participation in an open source [14:03] community [14:03] project, whether maintained by the Company or by [14:03] another commercial or non [14:03] - [14:03] commercial entity or organization [14:03] , [14:03] does not constitute a conflict of [14:03] interest even where [14:03] you may [14:03] make a determination in the interest of the project [14:03] that is adverse to [14:03] the Company [14:03] ’ [14:03] s interests" [14:03] so essentially, it says the following. [14:04] let me give you an example. [14:04] say you are a Red Hatter (like me). and you are now part of an open source project. [14:04] does not matter who created the project - anyone anywhere. [14:04] and the project has reached a decision point. [14:05] and the members of the project (including me) have to decide on two options. [14:05] option A is good for the project [14:05] option B is so-so for the project. [14:05] however, it turns out that option A is "negatively" impacting Red Hat. [14:05] and I am a Red Hatter. [14:06] but option B is neutral to Red Hat. [14:06] so, as a Red Hatter, what should I vote? A or B? [14:06] ofcourse b [14:06] B [14:06] ! [14:06] B [14:06] anymore guesses? [14:06] ofcourse b [14:06] B [14:06] A [14:07] A [14:07] It should be A, I think [14:07] A [14:07] A [14:07] A [14:07] A [14:07] b [14:07] any of the two [14:07] A [14:07] a [14:07] A [14:07] B [14:07] A [14:07] B [14:07] A for project ! [14:07] \A [14:07] A [14:07] tough decesion [14:07] ok. thanks. [14:07] A as per the Ethics [14:07] the right answer would be vote for A. [14:07] the project has to succeed. [14:07] ! [14:07] A [14:08] The project is fragile. Red Hat is not. Red Hat can figure out what to do. [14:08] /msg NickServ id1510 [14:08] harish, Nice explanation, thanks [14:08] ! [14:08] Yeah! [14:08] A [14:08] A [14:08] B [14:09] Everyone please stop now [14:09] harish, thanks you for explaining and sharing the link about conflict of interest. [14:09] More importantly, as a Red Hatter, voting for the success of the project means that I will continue to be welcomed to the project or any other project because they know that even though I am with Red Hat, the project takes precedence in. Red Hat *will* not hold it *against me* for voting for the project. [14:09] in other words, there is NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST in this instance. [14:09] ! [14:09] next [14:09] Sorry I know this is nothing related with tech but as you opened 4 startups so can you tell something about how you approach sponsors for the funds? [14:10] family and friends. [14:10] next [14:10] Thanks harish [14:11] gozmit, not that i never took money from VCs. that was very reluctantly because the bulk of them are clueless people who have money that they don't know what to do with. [14:11] next [14:11] Can you please share your first F/OSS contribution experience? [14:12] Rayan_, that was done *before* the term free software/open source was coined. [14:12] harish, But in the competitive world will it be beneficial for Redhat to have you since you won't be productive ti tje company? [14:12] i recently came across some stuff i did in 1981/2/3 with my first computer and it is on my blog: https://harishpillay.wordpress.com/2018/06/03/and-they-are-online-now/ [14:13] ananyo, a) it is Red Hat b) define "won't be productive to the company". [14:13] Rightly said harish [14:13] harish, okay. [14:13] ! [14:13] ! [14:14] Red Hat straddles the commercial use of open source tech and engagement with the global open source community. we have to be good citizens in both areas. [14:14] I mean to say if the work towards the project is negatively affecting the company and you can't be productive to your project in Redhat will it be beneficial for the company? [14:14] if we mess up with the open source world, the contriibutions might dry up and Red Hat is then dead. everything Red Hat sells under a subscription is 100% open souce products. [14:15] ananyo, It is Red Hat, not Redhat. [14:15] ananyo, Red Hat has to figure out what to do. It is not a bad thing for the corporate. Not all corporate decisions are necessarly ight. [14:16] s/ight/right. [14:16] Ok [14:17] is you get a chance to read Jim Whitehurt's book "The Open Organization", there are anecdotes he mentions that is about how mistaken he was when he became CEO of Red Hat in 08 thinking that we were a traditional software company. [14:17] https://www.redhat.com/en/explore/the-open-organization-book [14:17] next [14:18] How did you feel when you received that EMACS tape from RMS? [14:18] kushal, Sorry for the mistake [14:18] fhackdroid, a) i had no idea who he was b) i was wondering what to do with emacs. c) went back to vi. [14:18] also https://farhaanbukhsh.wordpress.com/2018/02/28/the-open-organization/ [14:18] mind you that was 1986 or so. [14:19] and ARPAnet was what it was. [14:19] harish: woaah :P I feel so amazed right now :) [14:19] i was connected to it via a UUCP link from my department in Oregon State University. [14:19] my email path was ...!hp-pcd!orstcs!guille!harish [14:20] meaning harish@guille.orst.edu in today's nomenclature. [14:20] harish: woaah! did you get a chance to meet Alan Kay? [14:20] hp-pcd was HP's printer manufacturing facility that was in the same city as OSU was - Corvallis, Oregon. [14:20] HP was connected to ARPAnet and hence we were too. [14:21] fhackdroid, not yet. [14:21] harish: That's a really long connection :P [14:21] he was in Xerox Parc [14:21] it was UUCP - unix-to-unix-copy-program. [14:21] that's how we used to send email and stuff from one system to another. [14:22] next [14:22] ! [14:22] harish, can you share any experiences you had during the time when the free software movement was heating up and any contributions you made towards it? [14:22] some crazy days talking to you feel like looking at evolution thanks [14:22] kps_, ok. [14:24] http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/supporters.html has some examples of how-tos i wrote in the late 90s. [14:25] harish, thanks [14:25] tip: one of the things you should make sure you have is a permanent email ID. mine is h.pillay@Ieee.org. I only use my @redhat.com for work related stuff. [14:25] next [14:25] Harish, what do you think about Google releasing it's open source O.S Fuchsia? when there are already open source operating systems in the market [14:27] jaydeep_borkar, the more the merrier i say. assuming that there are interesting things in that code base that can be incorporated into Linux if the licensing allows for it. [14:27] if the licensing of fuschia is restrictive, the good luck to them. [14:28] but i think google is smart enough to want it to be on a open source friendly license. [14:28] next [14:28] Harish, great answer, yes. Thank you! [14:28] next [14:28] harish, What is CC license? [14:29] https://creativecommons.org/ [14:29] next [14:29] sourabhdeshmukh_, there will be a licensing session later. [14:29] next [14:30] What is "free software" and is it the same as "open source"? [14:30] kushal, ok :) [14:30] NityaNidhi_, i think that will be covered later. but for all ends and purposes they are the same. [14:30] NityaNidhi_, it was part of yesterday's home task. [14:30] opensource.org is your friend. [14:31] let me phrase it this way: [14:31] "open source" is the marketing phrase of free software. [14:31] next [14:32] next [14:32] harish, in which sense option A is "negatively" impacting Red Hat ? What is meant by "negatively" impacting ? [14:32] i just join open source few month ago i want secure my future in it what should i so [14:32] ! [14:33] ! [14:33] ! [14:33] pr97, negatively could mean many things. could be feature point of view, could be functionality, could be patch acceptance. [14:33] negatively in the sense that it is not what Red Hat would have preferred. [14:33] next [14:33] People have been speculating that since Red Hat has more members in kubernetes board now they (the company) get to decide the direction of that technology. But from your explanation that is not true. Contrary to that there were presentation by executives explaining this as an advantage. How will you assuage such concerns [14:34] patch acceptance ? [14:34] ! [14:34] pr97, will answer that later. [14:34] okay harish thank you [14:35] j605, that is why we work in the upstream all the time. Red Hat is all about upstream first. [14:35] being on the board does not mean that Red Hat controls it. it is *still* an open source project. anyone can fork it or boot the members of the board out if they are not doing things to the benefit of the project. [14:36] next [14:36] What is the Red Hat Enterpise Linux exactly...? I was not able to wrap my head around that . Is it for servers only ? Can I use it in place of ubuntu ? I do have a subscription to RHEL (it was free once). Is it any use to me as a student ? [14:38] same question in my mind as brute4s99_ : ) [14:38] pr97: patch acceptance. for example, there is a patch to the linux kernel that needs to be put in but the upstream kernel project is rejecting it. this patch is for RHEL (for example) and it will be impacting RHEL deployments to our customers. Not having it accepted upstream will be a challenge. But Red Hat has to figure out how to mitigate and the people who voted in favour of the project are not subjected to conflicts of interest. they are doing the [14:38] right thing. [14:40] brute4s99, RHEL is the commercially supported Enterprise Linux from Red Hat. You can run it anywhere - laptops, Raspberry Pis, servers, in the cloud, in containers, in VMs etc. Do with it what you want to. If you acquired a subscription for it from Red Hat we provide you all the patches, fixes, updates, erratas, certicications etc so long as you are a subscriber. [14:40] Ubuntu is like Fedora. Fedora is upstream to RHEL. [14:40] okay harish thank you. [14:40] next [14:41] ! [14:41] next [14:41] harish, a)first of all, feeling very honored. b) ARPANET was when transitioned to Internet. It had many other contributing bodies also. So, was the entire thing can be referred to as under FSM. c) Was you a part of the ARPANET to INTERNET contributions too, like was involved into any of those 4 major contributing bodies? [14:41] ! [14:41] harish, what certifications are you referring to ? [14:41] Solved from previous answers. Thanks. Pass. [14:41] priyankasaggu119, what's FSM? [14:42] Free Software movement [14:42] APRAnet was the defence related project from the US Dept of Defence. [14:42] yeah [14:42] There are thousands of people who've done stuff in ARPAnet and then on to the Internet. [14:43] I am currently a member of the Board of Trustees of the Internet Society _ https://www.internetsociety.org/board-of-trustees/ [14:44] ! [14:44] i did build a TCP/IP stack for something called MS/IBM OS/2 as part of my MSEE thesis: http://tinyurl.com/HarishPillayThesis [14:44] next [14:45] Can I restrict how people use an Open Source licensed program?