----BEGIN CLASS---- [13:30] #startclass [13:30] tnsittpsif: hello [13:31] When I say "roll call" please, mention your full name [13:31] Roll call [13:31] Jason Braganza [13:31] Robin Schubert [13:31] Alison Scott [13:31] Bhavin Gandhi [13:31] Mayur khomane [13:31] vaibhav kaushik [13:31] Khomesh Thakre [13:31] Sahil Agrawal [13:31] Joshua M Jiji [13:31] Siddhant N Trivedi [13:31] Ashish Kumar Mishra [13:31] sahil jha [13:31] Priyanka Saggu [13:31] Tushar Mittal [13:31] Shankar Jha [13:31] Amitrajit Bose [13:31] Rajan Choudhary [13:31] kumar vipin yadav [13:31] Rakshit Airani [13:31] Aditya Deshpande [13:31] Ved Sinha [13:31] Harshit Doshi [13:31] Priyanka Sharma [13:31] AMAN VERMA [13:31] Rajat Gupta [13:31] Shreyas Patankar [13:31] Tushar Nitave [13:31] Mohit Bansal [13:31] Aravind Menon [13:31] Sehenaz Parvin [13:31] Shivam Bansal [13:31] Naman mittal [13:31] Raju Kalidindi [13:31] Vivek Shukla [13:31] Gajendra Saraswat [13:31] Shamik Nandi [13:31] Garima Gill [13:31] Sourabh Kulkarni [13:31] Yadnesh Kulkarni [13:31] Amit Kumar [13:31] Gaurav devkota [13:31] pawan kumar [13:31] Shivam Gupta [13:31] Anuja Kulkarni [13:31] Sourabh Pruthi [13:31] Shiva Saxena [13:31] janifa M [13:31] Rayan Das [13:31] Vara Singh [13:31] Saikat Dey [13:31] Manjeet Mehta [13:31] Piyush Aggarwal [13:31] Arpana Debnath [13:31] Kuntal Majumder [13:31] Akshay Gaikwad [13:32] Avinash Kumar [13:32] Vaishnavi kulkarni [13:32] Prashant Sharma [13:32] Santhosh Nagaraj [13:32] pallavi verma [13:32] Raju Devidas [13:32] Jitendra Kumar Tripathi [13:32] Utkarsh Gupta [13:32] Siddhant Shenoy [13:32] Aakanksha Jain [13:32] I Sagar [13:32] Deep Roy [13:32] Naman Sharma [13:32] Shailesh Chhabdiya [13:32] Bhavesh Gupta [13:33] I am Shakthi Kannan (@shakthimaan), and we will be reviewing basic communication guidelines today [13:33] Kshitij [13:33] I am Prateek Arora [13:33] Before I open the floor for questions, there are some basic things I want to talk based on the interaction that we have had so far [13:33] Aditya Patil [13:33] 1. Please do not use SMS speak in this channel or in the mailing list, or anywhere else [13:34] It is considered very unprofessional to use SMS speak. We have already seen people use "plz", "sols" etc. [13:34] ! [13:34] Acronyms are fine (and exceptions) [13:34] 2. Every session is important. There is something to learn from every session. So, do no treat a session as not important. [13:35] We want you to get your foundation correct, so that you can stand on that to contribute to F/OSS [13:35] You should always be in a state where you are eager to learn more, and not have an attitude or approach that "I know everything"; this will not take you much further [13:36] Noory [13:36] Karan Pratap [13:36] 3. The "..." is ellipsis and has its usage. Please do not use that in this channel [13:37] Ananya Maiti [13:37] 4. When you are going through the training sessions, you will have to unlearn many things, and learn a lot [13:37] So, you will end up saying a lot of these - "Sorry", "Please" and "Thank you" [13:37] 5. I see that lot of people are top-posting in the mailing list [13:38] ! [13:38] When you write your answers in your exams, you write it below the question and not above the question [13:38] ! [13:38] The following is an example of a top-post, http://lists.dgplug.org/pipermail/users-dgplug.org/2018-June/001183.html [13:38] ! [13:38] questions later, please. [13:38] Ok [13:38] I understand [13:38] ok [13:38] The reply is above whatever was the previous e-mail, and also there is lot of over-quoting [13:39] When you reply, you should quote the text that is relevant, trim your message and bottom-post, just like you will answer a question in your exam [13:39] this is a good example of bottom posting, http://lists.dgplug.org/pipermail/users-dgplug.org/2018-June/001186.html [13:39] When we are reading large conversations, it is important to use bottom-posting, as there is a continuous flow to the reader [13:40] Top-posting is used in corporate communication, and it has its uses; but, in F/OSS mailing lists we use only bottom-posting [13:40] 6. Pay attention to whatever we are saying. Everything we say is important, and it is important for you to follow instructions [13:40] Jitesh Pabla [13:41] As engineers, it is important for us to communicate clearly, comprehensively so that the listener can understand what you are trying to say [13:41] You can be to the point, but, it must give all the relevant technical information for others to understand [13:42] There are presentations on "Free Software communication guidelines" and "Mailing list guidelines/etiquette" from http://shakthimaan.com/downloads.html [13:42] As yesterday's homework, we asked you to go through the same. [13:42] I will now open the floor for questions; please type "!" if you want to ask a question, and wait for your turn [13:42] next [13:43] ! [13:43] ! [13:43] ! [13:43] ! [13:43] next [13:43] ! [13:43] i need to learn basics of programing...will you provide the sources [13:44] sai_, today we are discussion on communication guidelines only [13:44] what are we doing today? [13:44] sai_, you can have a separate discussion on that in this channel later [13:44] ! [13:44] ok ..thanks [13:44] Lover_of_python, Please wait for your turn. [13:44] vs rocket is now love of python [13:44] next [13:44] so it is his turn [13:44] I want to learn about the 802.11 standards. [13:45] ! [13:45] how should i end my conversation [13:45] sai_, [13:45] [13:45] [13:45] ! [13:45] thematrjx, there are standards documuents that you can refer to learn on that; today we are only discussing on communication guidelines [13:45] sai_: type or when you are done. [13:45] next [13:45] @mbuf: okay [13:46] Thanks but I just clarified my doubt with above discussion @batul [13:46] thematrjx, you don't need to prepend '@' before the nickname; this is not Slack [13:46] [13:46] thematrjx, IRC clients will be able to highlight your nick (alone) [13:46] next [13:46] ! [13:46] I am not able to use Thunderbird for the bottom-posting thing. Help me for that. [13:46] okay mbuf [13:46] I am new to this [13:46] ! [13:47] priyankasaggu119, you have to write better than that; what do you mean "not able to use"? [13:47] Vishal Kushwaha [13:47] (NityaNidhi) ! [13:47] What is Bottom posting ?I am new here didn't able to get what it is ? [13:47] priyankasaggu119, you have to give enough information to tell us what you did, how did you install, which version you are using, what is your configuration, what did you try etc.? any screenshots, error messages will also be helpful [13:48] priyankasaggu119, as engineers, we have to write in detail, and provide as much technical info as possible [13:48] ! [13:48] ohk. I will collect and will again ask. [13:48] ! [13:48] ! [13:48] priyankasaggu119, did you refer any Thunderbird guides or blogs or HOWTOs on the same? if yes, which ones? [13:48] priyankasaggu119, please write to the mailing list on the same [13:48] next [13:48] mbuf,Got my answer from above discussions. [13:49] next [13:49] resolved same as that of priyankasaggu119 [13:49] We had asked all of you to read this log yesterday: https://dgplug.org/irclogs/mbuf_1stclass.log [13:49] If you have any questions on the same, please type "!" and wait for your turn to ask your question [13:49] next [13:50] unfortunately I was absent in last class.. may I know what are the things I have missed. and how I can cover that? [13:50] shaktiman, you will need to read the logs [13:50] ! [13:50] shaktiman, ask people in this channel, or in the mailing list [13:50] ! [13:50] next [13:50] Can you tell us about the various modes in IRC channels? Like you disabled talking, once. I know Google is an option but you can just specify the modes you will be using in #dgplug and also any change in weekday/weekend schedules? [13:51] Arnold97, those controls are with the admins [13:51] Arnold97, you might want to read on IRC ops; learn to use a search engine first; try reading documentation on the subject [13:51] ! [13:51] in our industry, we have to read a lot; so reading habits are essential; [13:52] do some homework first, and let us know what you did to understand the subject better; we are here to guide you, but, not spoon-feed you [13:52] you are expected to put in a lot of hard work during the learning process, so, be ready [13:52] next [13:52] I've noticed that configuration options for modern email clients often don't offer bottom-posting any more. People may struggle. I've just searched for my primary client, where I can't bottom post, and the internet is no help. (i just use a different client). [13:52] mbuf, ok. [13:53] BohemianCoast, what is your question? [13:53] Do you have recommended clients for people who are struggling with this? [13:53] BohemianCoast, Free and Open Source Software is all about freedom and choice; use the one that suits your needs [13:53] shaktiman, https://dgplug.org/irclogs/2018/Logs-2018-06-17-13-30.txt [13:53] Of course, thank you. [13:53] BohemianCoast, just like we cannot decide your favourite ice-cream, you have to try different clients and choose the one that you prefer [13:54] BohemianCoast, F/OSS, like, any other, cannot be forced onto people; you all came here because you have the interest [13:54] BohemianCoast, as long as you have the eagerness to learn, you will survive [13:54] ! [13:54] next [13:54] what is the use of irc and mailing lists in the industry? Also how to use mailing lists? [13:54] ! [13:55] napstar, every software tool has its use; IRC is good for low-bandwidth users as well; Mailing lists are good for discussions, handling code patches etc. [13:55] ! [13:55] is today's session only for communication guidelines? and for 2 hours? [13:55] ! [13:55] napstar, read the PDF links in my downloads.html page to know more about the other communication tools and their uses [13:55] zappy, for an hour [13:56] zappy, but, feel free to hang around to have meaningful discussions [13:56] next [13:56] ! [13:56] next [13:56] ! [13:56] has top and bottom mailing to do with the same braoder and narror approach? [13:56] What is Bottom posting and THunderbird guides? I am new here didn't get what you are saying ?What is Bottom posting and Thunderbird guides? I am new here didn't get what you are saying ? [13:56] where can i learn about them and how to use them? [13:56] zappy, what is "braoder" and "narror"? [13:57] zappy, ask only when you are called upon please. [13:57] broader and narrow * [13:57] zappy, before you hit enter, check what you have type; what do you mean "broader" approach? [13:58] rooted, scroll back in the conversation to see an example of bottom posting; also read the PDF on mailing list guidelines that illustrates what it is; we expect you to do your homework; we will not repeat that here [13:58] next [13:58] as in top down approach we go from broader subjects to its detailed parts. is it same in the top mailing ? [13:58] zappy, it has nothing to do with subject [13:58] ! [13:58] zappy: please read the links on communication, it was the homework for last class [13:59] zappy, read http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/mailing-list-etiquette.pdf [13:59] next [13:59] Sometimes during a conversation, when we fail to comprehend someone message due to native language barrier. How do we ask him to rephrase in a friendly way such that he doesn't get offended? [13:59] I am reading about mailing list guidelines. I don't get what is top posting and what does it mean `use interleaved,trimmed posting`. What does this mean? [13:59] i was not present yesterday. and i did not understand top/bottom posting today. thatswhy i asked. [13:59] philomath_, you can say, can you please "rephrase your question or answer". [14:00] aditya81070[m]1, scroll back in this IRC conversation and there are examples of the same [14:00] next [14:00] unable to connect to https://shakthimaan.com/downloads.html .I have tried to access from Firefox and Chromium.I have tried to google search the website with keywords also.The links from the previous year's log are also unable to connect to the website. [14:00] mbuf, Thanks [14:00] newrg, did you not try http://shakthimaan.com/downloads.html? [14:00] yes [14:00] i tried [14:00] newrg, and? [14:00] unable to connect [14:01] newrg, http://shakthimaan.com/downloads.html works for me [14:01] newrg: your browser is highly restricted use another browser. [14:01] okay mbuf [14:01] I have tried with Firefox and Chromium.I am using Linux Mint. [14:01] newrg, what did you do when you found that it did not open? [14:01] next [14:01] What are we actually going to learn today? [14:01] ! [14:02] ! [14:02] i was also focusing same problem but now i install chrome and able to open that link [14:02] ! [14:02] newrg, did you not try using wget or curl to see if you can download the page? and check that it was perhaps your browser, or Internet connectivity or firewall that is stopping the download? [14:02] sahil9, learn to communicate effectively [14:02] newrg: https://0x0.st/sLgs.pdf rehosted, try this [14:02] okay [14:02] newrg, Try updating your Firefox version, it works smoothly on Firefox. [14:03] as engineers, if you get stuck, you are expected to find alternative ways to find solutions [14:03] ask people on IRC, ask in the mailing list etc. [14:03] next [14:03] Do we have any guest who is joining this trainning. [14:03] thematrjx, why? [14:03] next [14:03] I will try all the alternatives and revert back.Thank you. [14:03] resolved [14:04] thematrjx, why do you need a guest? [14:04] next [14:04] iam new to this.i did not receive any email yet...what do i do now? [14:04] Just asking. [14:04] sai_, just earlier I said not to use "..." in chat [14:04] newerg might be with your internet connectivity issue [14:04] ! [14:05] iam new to this.i did not receive any email yet.what do i do now? [14:05] Cause I heard a lot about this channel and the guest who joins this channel. [14:05] what do "..." means ? [14:05] sai_, please read http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/mailing-list-etiquette.pdf [14:05] sai_, are you not subscribed to the dgplug mailing list? [14:05] thanks [14:05] Hey. [14:06] naman712, ellipsis - use a search engine to get answers first; https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ellipsis [14:06] yes i am [14:06] next [14:06] ! [14:06] When to use "...", is there a use case for that? [14:06] thematrjx, You're here for guests or for F/OSS [14:06] obiviously for FOSS [14:06] BhaveshSGupta, check an English grammar book for the same [14:06] ! [14:06] I am just asking dude. [14:06] ! [14:06] sourabh1031: newrg we can debug after the class is done [14:07] BhaveshSGupta, Strunk & White, Wren & Martin [14:07] BhaveshSGupta, do not use it here [14:07] next [14:07] how to install linux on my virtual box? i tried several times but was unable to do so. [14:07] ! [14:07] ! [14:07] Saksham_19o9, You should write better than that! 1. Which Linux? 2. Which VirtualBox? 3. What steps did you follow? 4. What error did you get? [14:08] Is the class still on? [14:08] Saksham_19o9, please read http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html [14:08] next [14:08] next [14:08] BananaSenpai it just started! [14:08] BananaSenpai, yes [14:08] BananaSenpai, it has been going on for 40 minutes [14:08] So can you please explain a bit about yourself? [14:08] [14:09] ! [14:09] ! [14:09] Ved_Sinha, use a search engine, and search for "Shakthi Kannan" [14:09] next [14:09] what are we going to learn today? [14:09] roll call devesh verma [14:09] thank you [14:09] ! [14:09] Ved_sinha, was the explaining thing meant for me? [14:10] riddlerman, we are already going through common mistakes in communication [14:10] BananaSenpai: stop, wait until the class is over before offtopic chat [14:10] riddlerman, did you not read the mbuf_class1st.log? [14:10] next [14:10] asked [14:10] next [14:10] mbuf, What are internet points? [14:10] nightwarrior_xxx, what is the context? [14:10] what is happening? How is the learning process carried here? Sorry for not being preent last day. [14:11] Magnus_Carlsen, just trying to correct people with the common mistakes made [14:11] next [14:11] ! [14:11] Magnus_Carlsen, people were given homework to read through https://dgplug.org/irclogs/mbuf_1stclass.log, and ask questions today [14:11] next [14:11] Magnus_Carlsen, many haven't done their home work yet [14:11] next [14:12] I tried adding calendar for the sessions in my google calendar using "add friend's calendar" option there, by pasting url, but i can't see it in my calendar. [14:12] i am not able to confirm myself for the mailing list. i tried all the three ways and replied but it says "bad confirmation" [14:12] Can you introduce yourself sir like what you do,what is your qualification ? So that we can get inspired by you. [14:12] siddharth: just read his website, this question was asked too many times already [14:12] zappy: make sure that you are not already subscribed. Because it says the same if you have already subscribed and again trying to [14:13] Sarques_, do you see any error? you might want to write to the mailing list with your problem [14:13] zappy, define "three ways"? you need to write in more verbose manner [14:13] siddharth, I already told you to use a search engine [14:13] next [14:13] no i am not getting any errors, okay [14:13] how would i get to know that i am already subscribed? because it has been showing : bad confirmation" only. [14:13] mbuf, thanks for the information. May i know what are going to learn today and when the session will actually start? Thanks in advance [14:14] Sarques_, but, that doesn't add the calendar; so, you need to see how to troubleshoot that [14:14] Magnus_Carlsen, the session is on. [14:14] three ways : reply to the mail. Mail to that particular address. And, to visit that mentioned website. [14:14] Will you please start the session with relevant topic ? [14:14] zappy, You can send a welcome e-mail to the mailing list, and see if it shows up at the list archives [14:14] okay thanks [14:14] zappy, http://lists.dgplug.org/pipermail/users-dgplug.org/ [14:14] Magnus_Carlsen, You've to type '!' to raise question, then ask on your turn. [14:15] siddharth, next [14:15] Will you please start the session with relevant topic ? [14:15] siddharth, the session already started at 1900 IST! [14:15] next [14:15] ! [14:15] I was going through mailing list etiquettes. Couldn't understand indigestible digest mode mistakes.please elaborate why is it called so? [14:15] how do i send a welcome email there? [14:15] rishibit, this rule goes for any question. Sorry to interrupt, I am actually new to this [14:15] sidntrivedi012, good question; some people subscribe in digest mode where they receive a single digest of all the e-mails in a week [14:16] sidntrivedi012, but, when they reply to a single e-mail, they leave all the e-mails in their reply [14:16] Magnus_Carlsen, np :) [14:16] sidntrivedi012, which is unnecessary text; so they need to know how to trim, and reply to e-mails [14:17] sidntrivedi012, otherwise, just subscribe to receive e-mails as and when they are delivered [14:17] rishibit, what is np ? North Pole? [14:17] zappy, it is just an e-mail introducing yourself [14:17] bhavin192, no problem, I guess [14:17] next [14:17] next [14:17] mbuf, in your logs, you have used the term "et. al.". Is it same as "etc."? Searching on the internet, I found they are both similar, so what is the distinction between them if there are any? [14:17] Ok. Got it. [14:17] ! [14:17] philomath_, that is a good question [14:17] what are we doing today? [14:17]