----BEGIN CLASS---- [16:56] #startclass [16:56] Roll Call [16:56] Anu kumari Gupta [16:56] Abhishek Singh [16:56] Pradhvan Bisht [16:56] Gaurav Sitlani [16:56] pooja kumari singh [16:56] Balaji [16:56] Bhavin Gandhi [16:56] Kushal Das [16:57] Ashwani Kumar Gupta [16:57] Priyanka Sharma [16:57] Jason Braganza [16:57] Kshitij [16:57] Sandesh Patel [16:57] Sandeep Kumar [16:57] Krishnanand Rai [16:57] Thank you everyone. [16:58] Today we have warthog9 with us for a guest session. [16:58] hello warthog9! and good morning! [16:58] As usual you can type ! if you have any questions, warthog9 will take them as he wish. [16:58] next [16:58] next [16:58] Okay, queue is now cleared. [16:58] warthog9, Stage is now yours, feel free to introduce yourself as you wish :) [16:59] well since they wouldn't let me introduce myself as this when I was over in Pune for PyCon I'm Terri Oda's +1 to Python events ;-) [17:00] :) [17:00] but I've been running around in open source circles since about 1995 or so, mostly Linux [17:01] ran kernel.org for nearly a decade, git developer for a while mostly working on gitweb (is it dead yet? please let gitweb be dead!), I've done a bunch of stuff in network booting with pxe / gpxe / ipxe / etherboot [17:01] worked for Intel on the minnowboard open source hardware platform for a few years, and now I work for VMware in their Open Source Program Office [17:02] beyond that in my spare time I buld robot dots, space ship bridges, random open source hardware projects, bodge fix my home's heat pump, mow the lawn and expecting our first child in the next week and a day [17:03] congratulations! [17:03] I'll have a freak out about the upcoming NMI SIGCHILD later no that I noticed the date ;-) [17:03] ! [17:04] add: warthog9 [17:04] next [17:04] Are you a star wars fan ? [17:04] :D [17:05] ! [17:05] preferential towards star trek myself, but I do enjoy star wars [17:05] bonus points now that George Lucas has had his hands torn away from the sript writing, and they are are starting to explore the greater *chuckle* universe [17:06] though if I could bring firefly back, I would jump on that :-) [17:06] next [17:06] it was mentioned in your profile that you turned to the dark side. [17:06] warthog9, What is your view on the state of Open Source Hardware licenses? [17:07] mbuf: so we've had a good long while to figure out a lot of the legalities going on about software [17:07] and while hardware has been around longer, it's a lot more complicate from a legal perspective [17:08] right now I'd argue we are in the stage just trying to flounder around and use what tools we have, while we try to figure out what tools we need [17:08] warthog9, okay [17:08] :-) [17:08] warthog9, thanks! [17:08] next [17:08] ! [17:08] next [17:09] warthog9, do you still use Perl today, and for what purpose? [17:09] much to the chagrin of my boss: yes I still use perl ;-) [17:09] perl is the swiss army chainsaw of the programming world, it can do everything but it might take your arm off when you use it [17:10] lately I've been using it because the GitHub API library is the least bad in perl, outside the official libraries [17:10] ! [17:10] though, that's not to say that I didn't try to use the python one [17:10] warthog9, okay [17:10] ! [17:11] I just couldn't get it to work for what I wanted fast enough, so to perl I went ;-) [17:11] ! [17:11] next [17:11] hello warthog, have you worked with arduino due? if yes, How do you flash the binary into it? I've been trying this the whole week but could not get it done. thank you! [17:11] I haven't poked at a due in a while, do you have the arduino ide? [17:11] yes [17:12] or are you trying to use avrdude directly? [17:12] make sure you've set the board options under 'Tools' in the menu bar correctly [17:12] no, due uses some proprietary bootloader. for that there is a tool called bossac. [17:12] and you *MIGHT* need to change the permissions on the /dev/ entry so a normal user can write to it [17:12] or you might just need to flash via root [17:13] yes. I tried running this as root. [17:13] and no luck? [17:13] yes. [17:14] sadly, I don't know - I'd have to go find my due to remember what I did the last time I poked at it [17:14] the tool "bossac" doesn't recognize the board. [17:14] ok. [17:14] I've had my head down in the esp8266 and esp32 based systems too much lately [17:14] and the attiny85s [17:14] I've just got my esp32. [17:15] trying zephyr on it. [17:15] when you get tired of zephyr try micropython ;-) [17:15] next [17:15] warthog9, if you wanted hardware work to be done by dgplug, what work would you prefer to "out-source"? :) [17:16] sure. thank you :) [17:16] I think the most helpful thing that dgplug could do is track down a good board house and assembly manufacturer that's indie India [17:17] s/indie/inside/ [17:17] warthog9, anything specific you want from them? [17:17] India, and Brazil, have insanely insular import rules that make getting hardware into the country harder, and finding a place inside India that can build things may make it easier to get your hands on hardware [17:18] warthog9, got it; thanks! [17:18] and there's plenty of open source hardware designs to throw at the board houses and assemply places. The more hardware you have cheap access to, the more you'll play and experiment [17:18] and honestly playing with things and experimenting is how you'll learn and grow and do more cool things :-) [17:18] next [17:18] A broad brush on the state of open source hardware today? Is it possible yet to have the “free” patent unencumbered machine that RMS wants? [17:19] that rms wants: no [17:19] open source hardware is actually in pretty good shape I'd argue [17:19] manufacturers already want to make their chips and parts accessible, and they've (generally) done a good job of that for a very long time [17:20] true [17:20] but at the end of the day a lot of those chips are going to be proprietary, and for fairly good reason - once someone else can trivially clone what you are doing, they'll do it cheaper / better / faster [17:20] and those are designs that companies can sink crazy amounts of money into [17:21] the FTDI serial stuff is a good example of what' happened in the clone wars there [17:21] so whither the “open source” part of hardware then? [17:21] with FTDI going so far as to try and brick some of their cloned hardware, which was a poor move [17:21] jasonbraganza: the "open source" part is how you put the pieces together [17:21] aaah [17:22] it's like saying the screws and wood are proprietary, but the blue prints to build your house are open source [17:22] now the pieces fit :) thank you! [17:22] so while we all have to buy the screws, you could add another bathroom to my design when you build your house [17:23] warthog9 - so I could design stuff of my own or freely use someone else’s design, correct? [17:23] correct [17:23] I've got several designs up [17:23] thank you [17:23] the bunnies I did for pycon pune are up at https://github.com/unreproducible/battlebunnies [17:23] and there's a few soldering kits in my main github.com/warthog9 account [17:24] next [17:24] was wondering how terriko was playing around with her laser beam toy and now that I realise you’re the plus one - it all makes sense :) [17:25] the laser is awesome, even if it is taking up 1/3 of our dining room table right now ;-) [17:25] hahahahahaha [17:25] the thing is huge though, it's like 2.5 x 3ish feet? [17:26] and we don't have all of it yet either, as there's a filter system that's still coming that goes underneath it so you don't have to vent it outside while it's cutting [17:26] ! [17:26] next [17:26] warthg9, could you suggest any controller from esp that is good for dsp (I need to calculate fft of 512 samples/sec). [17:26] gut reaction would be to go for the esp32 [17:27] it's dual core and quite a bit faster than the 8266 [17:27] ok. I'll try that. [17:27] ! [17:27] has more flash memory and ram too [17:27] http://espressif.com/en/products/hardware/esp32/overview [17:28] and if you are looking for a test board there's a nodemcu like board that's floating around with the esp32 on it, that would be a good starting point [17:28] next [17:28] btw, I so loved your pycon video! [17:28] Started my career as a hardware monkey with breadboards and assembling telephone anaylizers back in ’97, before I got into IT/PC support [17:28] I joined up here at dgplug, so that I could learn software. [17:28] If I want to get back into the hardware game, what’ll I find different from 20 years ago? [17:28] jasonbraganza: nothing ;-) [17:29] really? [17:29] the tools have had a vague face lift, but really the industry hadn't changed much [17:29] 6502s and assembler?! [17:29] well, ok we have come a little way on that front ;-) [17:29] mcu's have gotten faster and cheaper [17:29] india was a bit behind the times then :P [17:30] the design tools are all still unapproachable messes [17:30] getting small runs of boards has actually gotten a LOT easier very recently [17:30] nice! [17:30] ! [17:31] but a lot of the chips and designs you'll remember from 1997 are still floating around [17:31] sometimes with wifi bolted to the side now ;-) [17:31] next [17:31] woah! [17:31] thank you :) [17:31] For a beginner can you recommend which hardware to pick up for learning , and where to start learning assembly level programming? [17:32] ! [17:32] I'm going to sound like a broken record, or a sales agent for esperif soon, but go look at the esp8266 or the esp32 [17:33] you can write the raw assembly for it if you want, but you can also jump up into more friendly high level languges like python or lua [17:33] or even arduino [17:33] the boards are pretty flexible, and relatively easy to deal with so they are pretty approachable [17:34] and they tend to run about 1/3 the cost of an official arduino [17:34] so that's the direction I've been pointing folks in :-) [17:34] next [17:34] the esp8266 you gave at pycon was my first hardware to play with! If I want to upgrade, will audrino uno be better or microbit? [17:35] to be honest, i have no idea about any of them! [17:35] depends on what you mean by 'upgrade' [17:35] the uno and the microbit, from a pure hardware perspective, would actually both be downgrades [17:35] ok! so? [17:35] ! [17:35] the microbit has some nice sensors and more leds on it, and it's got a good community behind it so there's some nice things going on there [17:36] the uno is just a very tried and true, everyone has used it, platform [17:36] but the mcu's on both are slower, less ram, and less nvflash [17:36] vs. the esp8266 board from pycon pune [17:37] okay, so what do you suggest? [17:37] as an upgrade? the esp32, after that you are likely looking at something like the sama 5 [17:37] but you jump a lot in price going to the sama 5 [17:37] the official pyboard would be a big step up, but it's also a big step up in price [17:38] hehe, okay! thanks a lot! will keep in mind! [17:38] next [17:38] could you tell us more about the open source hardware projects that you are currently working on? [17:39] gotta think of which ones are public knowledge yet ;-) [17:39] I did just finish up a soldering kit for a maker faire out here, surface mount, and it uses an attiny85 as the brains [17:40] hardware isn't super complicated, but it's a soldering kit so people had fun with it a couple of weeks ago [17:40] I've got a gen2 of the bunnies I did 95% complete, I've been holding off ordering a second round of prototypes on that till I've confirmed that I had IR working [17:41] great. is that project public yet? can I see it some where? [17:41] the one with attiny85 [17:41] the bunnies are public, https://github.com/unreproducible/battlebunnies [17:41] ohhh yeah that one is [17:42] https://github.com/warthog9/ABQMMF-Solderkit-2016 <-- that's last years that's through hole [17:42] https://github.com/warthog9/ABQMMF-Solderkit-2017 <-- that's this years which is all surface mount [17:42] I need to start on a 2018 one that will be a road runner, but I haven't decided if it'll be through hole or surface mount [17:43] have some iot sensor things (temperature, light, etc) I've got mostly done that I need to do prototypes of before I release [17:43] okay. [17:43] also bunnies are great. I'm still using it. [17:43] mostly things happen when I've got time, and I suspect I'll have a time sink happening soon ;-) [17:43] GOOD! [17:43] I'm glad :-) [17:44] :) [17:44] the bunnies were intended to be approachable and useful, and I keep hearing that people are still using them - so I'm pretty pleased :-) [17:44] next [17:45] so in this version of bunnies does the issue regarding IR sensor is solved? [17:45] girish946: maybe [17:45] I haven't tested it yet which is the problem :-P [17:45] ! [17:45] adafruit sent me a box with an mp3 player kit in it that uses IR and I want to get that working, then test the code on the bunny to confirm [17:45] ok no problem. all the other things are still working. [17:45] next [17:46] You told us that you ran kernel.org , what did you work on regarding kernel? [17:46] I ran the infrastructure actually [17:47] so cool! [17:47] I think my name shows up once, maybe twice, in the changelog for the kernel - but otherwise I ran the infrastrucre it was all based on [17:47] so we had world wide mirroring, geodns load distribution [17:47] ! [17:47] devops right? [17:48] that's as close a term as exists for what I did [17:48] more systems architect, sysadmin, beggar, and coder all rolled into one job [17:48] that was going to be my question :P [17:49] next [17:49] ! [17:49] Aww, Cool [17:49] what are the reading material(s) or resources you would recommend for someone getting started in Site Reliability Engineering? [17:49] warthog9, ^^ [17:49] I'd start by building your own infrastructure and getting it working [17:50] I've always been one to build it, tear it apart, rebuild it till I understand it [17:50] so I don't know of too many things to suggest reading outside of howtos and the documentation for the various pieces you are trying to make work [17:50] warthog9, okay [17:51] but yeah, get a small machine you can break, and then start breaking it :-) [17:51] next [17:51] how was kernel.org funded (and you paid) in those early days? [17:51] warthog9, got it! thanks! [17:51] in the early days? we begged, and borrowed basically :-) [17:51] and none of us were paid [17:52] holy moly! [17:52] we ran the infrastructure in our spare time on donations till the Linux Foundation hired me in, grief I don't remember when? [17:52] 2009? [17:52] earlier than that [17:53] you know it's bad when you have to go look up your own linkedin profile ;-) [17:53] 2008, mentioned on your linkedin [17:53] holy long decade batman! [17:53] ! [17:53] so yeah, kernel.org ran from it's inception till when I was hired without fulltime staff [17:53] and all the hardware, and hosting, was donated [17:53] why do it? [17:53] what kept you going? [17:54] so I spent, in some cases, upwards of a year working on the donation deals for hardware [17:54] I enjoyed it :-) [17:54] when I went to the Linux Foundation I took a small paycut to keep doing it, but full time [17:54] (for the record: don't do that, it's crazy talk!) [17:55] next [17:55] i did and you’re right :) [17:56] warthog9, Can you please explain a bit more on how to learn at home? Say someone wants to be good at infrastructure, what kind of minimum setup, and then what all things that person can try at home. [17:56] Most participants of the training are new. [17:56] there's two ways to do the learning at home [17:57] (1) take what you've got and start breaking it, you'll be very motivated to fix it as this will usually mean your internet is broken ;-) [17:57] (2) build up a parallel setup, using cheap parts, that you don't mind breaking the setup on [17:57] but snag a Linux box and get a website, internally, up and running [17:57] Please explain breaking otherwise people may break the real hardware. [17:57] lol, yeah don't break your hardware in half [17:58] breaking as in experimenting, trying to bring up things you've never tried running [17:58] like running a mail server, bringing up apache or nginx [17:58] runs some virtual machines and build out a load balancer [17:58] virtual machines are great for experimenting and playing with [17:58] since they are easy to put up, and tear down [17:58] what hardware do we need? [17:59] anything you've got [17:59] ! [17:59] sitlanigaurav[m], your laptop is good enough for vms [17:59] the older and crappier the hardware the more you'll have to think about how to put it together to do what you want :-) [18:00] kushal: does that answer your question? [18:00] next [18:00] a day in the life of John Hawley (before the craziness of the coming year) :P What routines, if any keep you sane? motivated? [18:01] kushal can tack on if I didn't answer his question [18:01] warthog9, yes, sorry, EOF [18:01] (It was asked earlier, I had to do some digging, just found now) [18:02] my day likely isn't that far different than yours - I wake up go to work, though I work from home now [18:02] the work itself is fun so that tends to keep me motivited [18:02] ! [18:02] since I work from home I force myself to leave the house at least once a day [18:03] evrnings are where the weird projects tend to spill into, like building robots and starship bridges [18:03] and there tends to be random crossover between my fun projects and work too so my work / life lines are a bit blurry [18:03] which is also not sometihng I generally recommend [18:04] but carve out some time to play with things [18:04] doesn't matter what, go play with technology [18:04] next [18:04] just a quick question, is there any non-paid option for vmware? [18:04] Thank you! [18:04] player I think is the only free thing we've got [18:04] from a VM perspective [18:05] okay, is that good enough for starters? [18:05] think you can grab esxi free as well, but you don't get all the extra management pieces around the edge [18:05] yes, they'll get you moving [18:05] okay, thank you [18:06] if you run into needing some feature that you'd have to pay for, but is available via qemu/kvm, or any other virtual solution - swtich to it [18:06] next [18:06] also if you run into neededing something in a vmware product, let me know so I can pass along the "the community sure would like to use $feature" to the product teams ;-) [18:07] okay that would be awesome! thank you! [18:08] anything else? [18:08] I'm happy to answer any question [18:08] warthog9, thanks for your time and for sharing your know-how; congratulations once again! [18:09] i second mbuf! :) [18:09] warthog9: it was amazing to hear from you and sharing stuff [18:10] well before I let you guys all crash for the night let me encourage you to go play, experiment, and try things outside your comfort levels [18:10] warthog9, Thank you :) [18:10] the more you poke around, trying new things, the more you'll learn [18:10] ! [18:10] i have got a spare router to break :p [18:10] and seriously, you won't learn until you've broken something ;-) [18:10] so go out there and break things :-) [18:11] next [18:12] I mean, I know next to nothing about heating and cooling systems and yet I'm going to go try and fix ours when I get done here ;-) What's the worst that could go wrong? ;-) [18:12] note to self: step #1 TURN THE POWER OFF [18:12] Hi warthog9 , What would you recommend to a noob user of ESP8266 , I will be getting mine yesterday. Some beginner projects to get started ? [18:13] cyber_freak: get sometihng like micropython loaded up on the board, and then start blinking leds [18:13] s/yesterday/tomorrow [18:13] you could follow anwesha's write up on getting her bunny to blink from twitter [18:13] and there's usually an led or two on an esp8266, you could do that :-) [18:14] it's fun and goofy [18:14] but it's a good starting place [18:14] then expand from there [18:14] warthog9, I have broken esp8266 :( used Tx Rx from Arduino directly [18:15] Thanks warthog9 [18:15] if you haven't tried it, take a look at: https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutorial/intro.html [18:15] that should run you through the basics for more or less any esp8266 and micropython [18:15] and micropython is REALLY easy to walk up to for an MCU [18:15] There is also http://micropython-on-esp8266-workshop.readthedocs.io/ [18:16] Yes I was going through it just before the session . [18:16] we also did https://github.com/unreproducible/tinysnakes but we stole a lot of it from otherplaces [18:16] thanks kushal , will be starting with the docs really soon [18:17] go play with things, don't be afraid of failure, don't be afraid to break things - if you break it *FIX IT* :-) [18:17] you'll learn a LOT more from fixing things, than from getting it right the first time [18:18] bhavin192: learned a valuable lesson, though I'm not sure he can fix it [18:18] but I bet bhavin192 won't make that mistake again ;-) [18:18] warthog9, hehe yup :D [18:18] for the record i have stacks of boards I've broken in similar ways, don't feel bad at all [18:19] ! [18:20] next [18:20] warthog9, how often do you see the magic smoke? while making/breaking the things :D [18:21] well my house was sparking last night, so..... [18:21] the more you do this, the less you'll magic smoke things [18:21] right. :) [18:21] but you have to let the magic smoke out a few times to know not to connect a 5v rx/tx to a 3.3v input line ;-) [18:22] ha ha. yes :D [18:22] warthog9, Thank you for the session :) [18:22] :-) [18:22] you are welcome [18:22] [18:23] This is warthog9's talk from PyCon Pune https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uBEEjOrTms [18:23] thank you warthog9 :) [18:23] you are all very welcome :-) [18:23] warthog9, Thank you once again :) ----END CLASS----