----BEGIN CLASS---- [14:00] #startclass [14:00] Roll call [14:00] Kushal Das [14:00] Robin Schubert [14:00] Anjali [14:00] Shubham [14:01] ritik [14:01] I guess rest are just busy with life :) [14:01] or sleeping [14:01] Anyway :) [14:02] anjali, subho ritik, did you watch the movies/documentaries we suggested so far? [14:02] yes [14:02] aman [14:03] Any comments on those? [14:03] Did you know about Aaron Swartz before? [14:04] Yes, I watched the documentary. [14:04] the nothing to hide documentary is mind blowing [14:04] yes I knew him [14:04] And no, i didn't know about Aaron before watching the movie. [14:04] ritik, anjali, any comments about his work? [14:05] specbeck, shivam, rishu_raj_, circuitl- feel free to join in [14:05] Why do you think we pointed you all to those documentaries? [14:06] schubisu, nah, they are just busy, no time for chit chat. [14:06] Some of his works like rss which I have used for automation with ifttt is magnificient [14:06] Present [14:06] ritik, Yes, he did some amazing technical work. [14:06] kushal, to know about the history of internet and open source? [14:06] i missed the roll call. [14:06] ritik, Not directly. [14:07] So that you all can understand the link between technologies and our society. To show you that Ethics matter. [14:07] ^^ these things will never be taught in our schools/colleges easily. [14:07] That effects all of our lives directly. [14:08] You may think that you are just writing some code. [14:08] The fact that he stood up for the whole community leaving all of his business offers out of his way is amazing for me. [14:08] Now maybe after years that piece of code will be used to decide who will be a citizen, or who can get govt subsidy, or whom to kill via a drone attack. [14:09] ^^ all of these are real examples, nothing hypothetical. [14:10] emsar046, hi, please have a look at https://heyguys.cc [14:11] Right sorry, my bad [14:11] I am wondering why no one else is speaking up!! [14:12] The whole point of the training is to help you to be able to contribute in the open source world and have an impact in life. If you can not talk, it will become a problem in every part of your life, including finding a job. [14:12] Can anyone please tell me what's been done in the last 10 mins ? [14:13] someone please paste the logs (privately via share.riseup.net ) to emsar046 in pm. [14:13] The people who are not typing anything, can you please at least tell us why are you not typing/writing anything? [14:13] will do [14:13] or do you think that we will teach you just some commands & some fancy programming things? [14:13] At least answer this ^^!! [14:14] kushal: No, it's much more than that. Noticed throughout the sessions. [14:15] 1 person replied, thank you specbeck. [14:15] i agree with speckbeck [14:16] s/speckbeck/specbeck [14:16] me too agree with speckbeck. [14:16] rishu_raj_, ritik but, no other comments? [14:16] other than agreeing!! [14:16] Earlier the problem was I was not sure about what was being asked :) [14:17] Some of you might be introverts. I am an introvert, so I know sometimes it's difficult to talk. But that is also one reason that IRC is good because you are just typing. And it's important to be part of the community, comment, contribute. So do reply and talk even if you do it less. [14:18] FOSS and working in FOSS communities is all about making an impact. Code is just a medium. And even in that it's not the only medium. It's more of a form of activism. So even if you don't want to be an activist, it's important you communicate your thoughts and leave comments. [14:18] Who all are yet to type in? [14:18] also don't be afraid to just join conversations; as we've mentioned many times earlier, that's what this is mostly about: exchange [14:18] Please *do* the work [14:18] a little bit [14:18] daily [14:18] kushal, whatever I have learnt till now from this training is unmatched, like no school or college teaches this [14:18] saptaks: In my opinion 'introvert' is just a term applicable in some circumstances, everyone talks freely to their parents atleast [14:18] but do it [14:19] and get these principles we are teaching you ingrained as habits [14:19] specbeck, not everyone :) [14:19] specbeck, I did not. [14:19] kushal: You're an exception then ;) [14:19] specbeck, well I don't want to generalize that. But that's probably a different discussion. But even if you don't talk freely and you are not comfortable, you still might need to. [14:20] specbeck, Nope, I know too many who did not. [14:20] Then maybe I'm the exception here? [14:20] anjali, shubham_s mars emsar046, no comments from you all? [14:21] the question is, why the new folks in this channel are not speaking? There has been a reason they came here, but now there's hardly participation. So being introvert would at least give some explanation ;) [14:21] If you have nothing to say, then may I ask what do you want from this training? [14:22] kushal, maybe before the training started but after the last few sessions that misunderstanding was cleared up [14:22] Honestly, think their IRC is just running in the background [14:22] specbeck, ^^ that is also not, as they disconnect even before we end the session. [14:23] anjali, shubham_s mars, no comments from you all? [14:23] Yeah, i have to reply to some urgent mails so I wasn't here. Sorry for that! [14:25] As you all can see, we are not trying to teach you random technical things yet, those are easy to learn. [14:25] anjali, you can still read and reply [14:26] can tell about myself, slowly getting into the flow, have been participating as and when have curiosity around the topics discussed [14:26] Regarding the training, i find it really useful. I'm learning about things which i did know nothing about. [14:26] But, the skills of being part of a group and communicate efficiently is something most people don't have. [14:26] emsar046, mars did you watch the documentaries we asked you to watch? [14:27] Yes [14:27] in parts, not complete [14:28] emsar046, any comments about those documentaries? What new things you learned? or did you find something interesting? [14:29] mars, we really hope that people take this training seriously. [14:29] mars: It's just too overwhelmingly interesting to be watched in parts :) [14:30] I really like Internet's Own Boy, especially the fact that some people have such a profound impact on our modern lives and most of us don't even know about them [14:30] I didn't know about Aaron before watching it [14:30] Completely agree with emsar046. [14:32] I guess many of you never replied to my question on the list. [14:33] I have watched long back, remember it in bits and pieces now, need to watch again [14:33] Which list? [14:33] specbeck, how many lists we talk about here (generally)? [14:34] specbeck, our mailing list. [14:34] Oh it must be the mailing list, still don't get those [14:34] specbeck, try unsubscribing and then resubscribe again. [14:34] Will register a different ID [14:35] Do you know that is NO certificate at this training? [14:35] Just asking to be clear. [14:35] no [14:36] ^^ and the rest? [14:36] Sorry, yes, someone did mention ig [14:36] specbeck, also what do you mean by "no". [14:36] yes [14:36] yes [14:37] Yes, I know there is no certificate [14:37] specbeck, ah okay [14:37] ;) [14:37] :P [14:38] yes [14:38] :D [14:39] no [14:39] ritik, anjali, specbeck, emsar046, mars and all others; what are your expectations from this training; what is the primary reason you have started this? [14:39] To know more about open source. [14:40] schubisu: To get to learn something be it anything about FOSS community. [14:40] after this training, i want myself to be proficient in open source field [14:40] in general knowledge around open source and community [14:40] And also because my brother suggested me to join :) [14:40] because i want to do things from scratch to be in open source field [14:41] :) thanks [14:41] Kushal talked about it back in 2019 once, felt somewhat curious but never got around to actually delving into it, so when I got to know about this, felt like there's no better time than now [14:41] schubisu to know about open source, and about IT field [14:41] so learning about FOSS / Open Source seems to be common with everyone [14:42] what are the biggest questions you currently have no answer for, or doubts/insecurities you feel with this field? [14:44] if that one is too hard... [14:44] How much can I actually learn from this training if I can't spend a lot of time online on the IRC ? [14:44] Open source feels too much to be honest. The fact that people create, modify and nothing stays the same [14:44] ah, sorry, should have waited a second longer ;) [14:45] about open source work and IT work and how can i do such work properly [14:45] emsar046, you will have to figure out a way to find more free time in every 24 hours. Everyone is in an unique place, but, everyone can take out time if they really want to. [14:46] specbeck: I guess that's live ;) we build systems and tools and improve steadily [14:46] emsar046: you learn at your own pace [14:47] maybe I should have asked another question first: What is it about Open Source that fascinates you, or makes you want to know more about it? [14:47] specbeck, yes technology has this issue of ever changingness [14:47] It's evolved too much already. Sometimes, it feels that I can't catch up [14:48] Same goes for science, innovation and technology in general [14:49] specbeck: :) I know that feeling. It can be overwhelming. But it will settle once you have reached a certain point and keep interested [14:50] what about my other question? You all want to learn more about Open Source, but why? [14:50] Are open source software as secure as closed source software? And if it is, then how is it achieved? [14:51] schubisu: It's a cool concept. Brings all humanity together, keeping all differences aside, as it should be in real life too :) [14:52] schubisu, i guess i don't have a particular reason, you may call it some kind of curiosity in general, I'm just starting college so I'm sort of looking to learn all that I can [14:52] The system we have as of now feels weird to me [14:53] anjali, i think if there is one person finding some bug to exploit an open source application, but there might be more number of developers fixing that bug [14:53] anjali: there is one major difference in Open Source software, compared to closed source: It is open for anyone to study. So what impact does that have on the security? [14:53] anjali, yes. Sometimes even more so. The idea of open source software isn't that you share your secret passwords and all. Given the code itself is open source, people can find a security issue quicker and fix it [14:54] Closed source softwares only get vulnerabilities discovered through things like bug bounty or after they have already been breached. [14:55] anjali: so every code that is written, regardless if open or closed source, will contain bugs and potential security critical ones [14:55] anjali, the thing that you need to understand is the term "hacker" doesn't represent bad. That's why I prefer calling attacker instead of hacker. So there will be many hackers (or security folks) who if they find an issue will report it [14:55] If someone tells you that they write bug free code, they are lying. [14:56] Here is a related document to read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html [14:56] old but works. [14:56] however, in Open Source, you have a much better chance that someone recognizes these errors and submits a fix [14:57] emsar046, coming back to your time question. [14:57] Just to give you an idea: back in my first year of college, when I started learning programming, I spend everyday till 4AM to code. [14:58] even I got access to IRC in 2005 after coming to Banglore for job, I was spending time here talking to people and writing code and learning from others. [14:58] I am tell you that is the same point with everyone. [14:58] If you want to learn something, you will have to spend hours to practice that. [14:59] If you can not spend hours and hours, you will still learn, but maybe not that good. [15:00] As there are many Indians in this training, let me give you an Indian example. Sachin Tendulkar spend hours and hours of his life to practice, as a kid, as a professional player. [15:00] And still he took only around 22 years to win a world cup [15:00] So becoming better is all about habit. [15:00] Okay, I got it now. Like, OSS allows people to rapidly address any security issues whereas as saptaks mentioned CSS rely on bug bounty or on their software vendors. So, that makes OSS as secure as CSS or even more secure. Thanks everyone! :) [15:01] Also, please don't call closed source software as CSS [15:01] hehehe [15:01] my heart just skipped a bit [15:01] saptaks, I was thinking why CSS!! [15:01] :p [15:01] OOPs Sorry! [15:01] Just write proprietary software or closed source software. [15:01] anjali, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS this is CSS [15:02] anjali: but there is still more to it [15:02] Already too many other communities are stealing the CSS acronym [15:02] I just forgot about the cascaded style sheets. [15:02] anjali: because it's usually not enough to just publish your cool code somewhere; if nobody cares to read it, you will not profit from the Open Source [15:03] anjali: it needs the community [15:03] that's why we put such a focus on this [15:03] without people who join in, Open Source cannot work [15:03] there are (in most cases) no employees [15:04] to start or participate a project, you need to know how to be part of a community [15:06] and how to became a part of community? [15:07] shubham_s: just like this :) [15:07] start to join the conversation [15:07] tell us what you think [15:08] shubham_s: you will become part of the community by communication [15:08] ooook got it [15:09] shubham_s, Is your keyboard stuck? [15:09] I think you will need a new keyboard. [15:09] no not [15:09] shubham_s, Oh, I thought that by seeing so many extra "o". [15:09] im pressing o but it dosent display [15:10] Coming back to how much time one should spend to learn things: [15:10] im sorry for extra "o" just keyboard things [15:10] Please read https://www.norvig.com/21-days.html after today's session, and if possible chat about it here in the channel [15:10] And then for Monday's session, read through https://summertraining.readthedocs.io/en/latest/blogging.html [15:11] kushal: i have read that. [15:11] Once again, unless you can communicate, you will not be able to much in the human society. [15:11] Roll call [15:11] aman [15:11] Shivam [15:11] Kushal Das [15:11] Anjali [15:11] Saptak S [15:12] Robin Schubert [15:12] mars [15:12] Shubham [15:12] kiyi [15:12] kiyo* [15:12] ritik [15:12] Saransh sood [15:12] kiyo, did you write any line in today's session? [15:12] s/kiyo/kiyi [15:12] Mehul ----END CLASS----